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Creation Evolution University • View topic - More honest way to compare chimps and humans

More honest way to compare chimps and humans

A forum for discussion and criticism of specialized topics relevant (pro and con) to Intelligent Design (ID) -- design detection, design specification, irreducible complexity, origin of life, platonic forms, design matrix, population genetics, cybernetic theories, semiotic theories, Fishers's fundamental theorem, Kimura's neutral evolution, Darwinian evolution, modern synthesis, probability theories, fine tuning, typology, discontinuity systematics, steganography, evolutionary algorithms, published ID material, ID philosophy, front loaded evolution, omega point theory, anthropic principles, multiverses and many-worlds, panspermia, extra terrestrials, teleology in biology, redundant complexity and fault tolerance, algorithmic complexity, complexity measures, no free lunch, blindwatchmakers, bad design, evil design, junk DNA, DNA grammars, von Neumann replicators vs. autocatalysis, Quines, polyconstrained DNA, Mendel's Accountant, DNA skittle, re-association kinetics, molecular clocks, GGU/GID models, enigma of consciousness and Quantum Mechanics, Turing machines, Lenski's bacteria, thermodynamics, Avida, self organization, self disorganization, generalized entropy, Cambrian explosion, genetic entropy, Shannon information, proscriptive information, Programming of Life, law of large numbers, etc.

More honest way to compare chimps and humans

Postby stcordova » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:41 pm

The way we compare chimps to humans is to take snips out humans and see if they are similar to chimps and then do a comparison. This is extremely invalid. It's like taking an English version of Tolstoy's War and Peace and comparing it to a dictionary and concluding they are 98% similar.

On the other hand, it isn't exactly productive to take all the sequences and just run a unix-like DIFF program since it will blow up because the differences are so severe (not the least of which is chromosome number and architecture.

So how can we do a fair comparison? How about we take random snips out of a human that we can align easily with another human, how about 10,000 base pairs, then find the closes match in a chimp. That's a fair comparison!

Any ideas are welcome. This project can be done to some extent since gene banks are publicly available by law.

The way comparisons were done in the 1970s was by reassociation kinetics, which basically only chemically found similar strands of DNA between chimps and humans. This is illegitimate bias. What about all the dissimilar strands. Reassociation kinetics have been the basis of what has been been compared ever since until now with the discovery of things like linkRNAs.

One extremely invalid way the Chimp genome is being sequences is they are taking chimp sequences and forcing onto a map of human sequences and declaring this as the chimp genome architecture! Of course the genomes will look similar with this sort of force fitting.

So a testable hypothesis. Take the longest lnc RNA strands in humans and see how well humans align with other humans, then take that lncRNA strand and see if it aligns with any chimp lncRNA, and if it doesn't, weight that into the comparison. If only 70% of lncRNAs are found in chimps, then we can't get any better than 70% identity in lncRNAs, probably worse.

We can then extend this to almost any long random sequence in humans that evidence human-to-human identity. How about 10,000 base pair segments instead of the measly little stubs that have be getting compared in mainstream literature.
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Re: More honest way to compare chimps and humans

Postby Rich » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:07 am

Or how about morphology?
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Re: More honest way to compare chimps and humans

Postby stcordova » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:23 am

stcordova
 
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Re: More honest way to compare chimps and humans

Postby Robert Byers » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:38 pm

Paris Hilton is dna okay to this boy!!
Again though all this dna comparison is meant to deny that apes/men are from common descent.
We are not however we are the only creatures that have such a close morphology/dna with another creature on earth and yet are of different kinds by any standard other then evolutionists.
What other creatures look/dna alike but are said to be unrelated by reproduction histories??
Trex with rhinos/ or lions with civets or bears with giraffes?
My point is that we look so much the same there must be another reason for this other then chance or gods whim.
I say its because we are a copy of the best bode to be had on earth within the spectrum of biology.
We can't have our own body because we are made in gods image. god can't be represented by mere biology spectrums.
All other creatures are defined by their looks. WE are not. We are defined by our souls. The things that live forever.
its in vain to find us different from apes. all measurements just make the poiot we are the same even with a wee bit of twist this or that way.
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