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Creation Evolution University • View topic - Soft Tissue
Page 1 of 4

Soft Tissue

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:29 pm
by DillyGill
I have been following the T-Rex soft tissue discovery. Obviously there was the highly amusing (for creationists) piece explaining the early stages of excuses for the find http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-n ... 69/?page=1

The last I heard (although I can not find the link) was that they were digging up fossils that they 'knew' to be around 8,000 years old and then making some calculations from that about how long soft tissue and red blood cells can last. Getting closer to the desired age of course.

I was wandering if any one knows the latest news about how they are fixing science to explain the evidence? Or have they muddied the waters sufficiently so they do not need the fix?

Also I was wandering, forensic investigation for murder and the like must have done some proper science on the degradation of cells and soft tissue. I was trying to find the right word for it and the closest I could get was forensic anthropology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_anthropology on this link under history it says 'forensic anthropology, a sub-field of applied anthropology and physical anthropology, uses a cross-disciplinary approach to identify an individual’s identity, time since death, '

So I was wandering if there was some studies done that are free from evolutionary meddling where we could get an honest answer as to the oldest age of bones containing soft tissue buried in similar conditions to the T-Rex. Science must have covered this in the discipline of forensic investigation surely?

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Re: Soft Tissue

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:17 pm
by stcordova
I reported on the study you were referring to:


The 8,000 year date may be off, but it's not a bad estimate, certainly better than millions of years!

Many biochemists should realize that the time of death could not have been millions of years ago for other fossils, but they just don't care to get involved in the debate.

DNA half life is about 521 years. Many amino acid racemization half live is a tens of thousands years at best. Added to this is the C14 half life of 5730 years.

So just like crime scene investigation, people in the know realize there is a problem, but few are coming forward. The one individual who came forward, and not in a very obvious way either, Mark Armitage, and he lost his job a few weeks after getting his work published. We call that witness intimidation.

The CEU forum is a good place to archive some of the particulars and research down to the difficult scientific details.

What is really bad however is some journals are now saying they've "discovered" evidence soft tissue can last for millions of years. Is this based on laboratory evidence? No, it's based on circular reasoning -- "we found soft tissue, the paleontologists say it is 70 million years old, therefore we discovered nature can preserve soft tissue for 70 million years even though we don't know how."

But the more obvious answer is the tissue isn't 70 million years to begin with, and there isn't really a new discovery. It's falsehood being promoted as some sort of great scientific find!

At the very least, even if what I claim might be proven wrong in the end (I doubt it), the mainstream is unwilling to say, "we don't know". They have to pretend they know when they really don't.

At a personal level, this question has some religious significance to me. Let's suppose the answer could go either way -- old fossils or young? Would I wager my soul on old fossils? The evidence is reasonable that they are young, and I have nothing to lose and everything to gain if it turns out they are young.

By the way, welcome to the CEU Forum. How did you find us?

Re: Soft Tissue

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:03 pm
by Thorton

Re: Soft Tissue

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:28 am
by DillyGill

Re: Soft Tissue

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:57 am
by DillyGill

Re: Soft Tissue

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:17 am
by DillyGill

Re: Soft Tissue

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:22 am
by DillyGill

Re: Soft Tissue

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:13 am
by Thorton

Re: Soft Tissue

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:19 am
by DillyGill
Also Thornton I was wandering on the more technical link you provided if they offered up an age or not based on observational science. I did try to follow the link and read for myself but it seems that with out handing over some money I could not get full access to the paper. So I would be interested to know if they were able to offer up an age? (with demonstrable calculations?)

Re: Soft Tissue

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:22 am
by Thorton