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Creation Evolution University • View topic - The Quantum Enigma of Consciousness and the Identity of the

The Quantum Enigma of Consciousness and the Identity of the

A forum for discussion and criticism of specialized topics relevant (pro and con) to Intelligent Design (ID) -- design detection, design specification, irreducible complexity, origin of life, platonic forms, design matrix, population genetics, cybernetic theories, semiotic theories, Fishers's fundamental theorem, Kimura's neutral evolution, Darwinian evolution, modern synthesis, probability theories, fine tuning, typology, discontinuity systematics, steganography, evolutionary algorithms, published ID material, ID philosophy, front loaded evolution, omega point theory, anthropic principles, multiverses and many-worlds, panspermia, extra terrestrials, teleology in biology, redundant complexity and fault tolerance, algorithmic complexity, complexity measures, no free lunch, blindwatchmakers, bad design, evil design, junk DNA, DNA grammars, von Neumann replicators vs. autocatalysis, Quines, polyconstrained DNA, Mendel's Accountant, DNA skittle, re-association kinetics, molecular clocks, GGU/GID models, enigma of consciousness and Quantum Mechanics, Turing machines, Lenski's bacteria, thermodynamics, Avida, self organization, self disorganization, generalized entropy, Cambrian explosion, genetic entropy, Shannon information, proscriptive information, Programming of Life, law of large numbers, etc.

The Quantum Enigma of Consciousness and the Identity of the

Postby stcordova » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:48 am

Last edited by stcordova on Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Quantum Enigma of Consciousness and the Identity of

Postby stcordova » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:51 am

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Re: The Quantum Enigma of Consciousness and the Identity of

Postby stcordova » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:52 am

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Re: The Quantum Enigma of Consciousness and the Identity of

Postby stcordova » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:55 am

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Re: The Quantum Enigma of Consciousness and the Identity of

Postby stcordova » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:28 pm

[From: https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateEvolutio ... y/dvew54y/]


> I'm not seeing where this is evidence of the existence of a god.

I don't think I can explain it well since I'm slugging through the math myself all over again to sort it out. But I'll try to explain as best I can.

So for now, I'm accepting the quotes from respected physicists including Richard Conn Henry from my graduate Alma mater.

So I'll fumble through my understanding as best as I can...

When we study a single system, like say an electron. Our observation can bring its position into existence. The quarrel between Einstein and Bohr was to the effect, "does the moon have to be observed in order to exist." Well the usual answer is "no", but in the quantum atomic world, it's "yes". Observation creates a collapse of the ordinary evolution of hypothetical probabilities and brings to existence the position of the electron. The mathemagicians and physicists said this is the most consistent way to model experimental results. Hence, we have paradoxes like Shrodinger's cat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat

So the cat is not made dead or alive till it is observed. Of course that seems to not make any sense! But at the atomic level, that's par for the course.

>Schrödinger intended his thought experiment as a discussion of the EPR article—named after its authors Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen—in 1935.[9] The EPR article highlighted the bizarre nature of quantum superpositions, in which a quantum system such as an atom or photon can exist as a combination of multiple states corresponding to different possible outcomes. The prevailing theory, called the Copenhagen interpretation, said that a quantum system remained in this superposition until it interacted with, or was observed by, the external world, at which time the superposition collapses into one or another of the possible definite states. The EPR experiment showed that a system with multiple particles separated by large distances could be in such a superposition. Schrödinger and Einstein exchanged letters about Einstein's EPR article, in the course of which Einstein pointed out that the state of an unstable keg of gunpowder will, after a while, contain a superposition of both exploded and unexploded states.

Now in the world of quantum computing, we try to leverage this sort of strangeness. So it's more than a mere academic curiosity, but has now practical applications. The difficulty is preventing the quantum bits from "collapsing" in the wrong way by an inadvertent "observation" or "measurement". This creates a hardware nightmare of creating such an isolated environment....

Ok, so suffice to say, some mysterious act of observation brings to life a hypothetical position of an electron into a definite position of the electron.

By way of extension, at the beginning of the universe, some observation brought to life the laws of physics and matter. That observation is in the future, because in Quantum Mechanics the future is causal of the past. We see this especially in the Double Slit Delayed Choice experiment.
http://www.dhushara.com/book/quantcos/qphil/qphil.htm

>Psychic Photons

>The astronomer's choice of how to observe photons from the quasar here in the present apparently detemiines whether each photon took both paths or just one path around the gravitational lens-bdhons of years ago. As they approached the galactic beam splitter, the photons must have had something like a premonition telling them how to behave in order to satisfy a choice to be made by unbom beings on a still non-exstent planet. The fallacy giving rise to such speculations. Wheeler explains is the assumption that a photon had some physical form before the astronomer observed it. Either it was a wave or a particle; either it went both ways around the quasar or only one way. Actually, Wheeler says, quantum phenomena are neither waves nor particles but are intrinsically undefined until the moment they are measured. In a sense, the British philosopher Bishop Berkeley was right when he asserted two centuries ago that 'to be is to be perceived.


I actually worked in a nano-systems group and one of my co-workers was working on the problem of ensuring quantum computers would be sufficiently isolated from future events such that present time computation are not affected by future events. This may sound bizarre, but in the atomic world, this is par for the course.

So one unsolved mystery is why the macroscopic world behaves so classically but the atomic world so bizarrely.

But in any case, if one can accept the notion that observation brings something into existence that was in an indefinite amorphous spooky condition, then by way of extension some observation brought the universe into existence.

Some have hypothesized a Universal Wave function. That is the Schrodinger equation encompassing all of material reality. You can see it is mentioned here in the last column which interpretations accord with the existence of the Universal Wave function:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpret ... pretations

This is discussion of that Universal Wave function:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_wavefunction
>The universal wave function is the wavefunction or quantum state of the totality of existence, regarded as the "basic physical entity"[8] or "the fundamental entity, obeying at all times a deterministic wave equation."[9]

So if there is a universal wave function, there is the possibility of an Ultimate Observer who will observe this function and bring it to life much like we bring the existence of electron position to life through the act of observation.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XF1EKO/re ... TF8&btkr=1

Is this proof airtight? No. But it puts an option on the table.

This was what I said over at r/creation:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Creation/comme ... e/dvegfrw/
>If I may point out one of my reasons for taking this line of inquiry.

>It would be easy for someone to imagine and believe in imaginary beings that could work all sorts of wonders. This would be akin to fairy tales.

>Now, if have something like life that couldn't naturally evolve, then we could invoke such an imaginary hypothetical being with all sorts of magical powers to explain life. At least that is a little more justifiable.

>But when atheistic physicists make a 180 degree turn toward ID because solutions to their physics equations imply God, I really take notice! At that point, when physics can be used to argue for the existence of God, then ID becomes far more legitimate in my mind than kids inventing fairy tales. It provides the missing element to ID, a Designer. But up until that point most design arguments are God of the Gaps with no other line of reasoning except the gap itself. I wanted something more to point to God than a mere Gap. Quantum Mechanics provided an alternate argument for God than just mere gaps.

So this is not a PROOF of God or ID, it is a feasibility argument from physics and math. The feasibility argument was how I could alleviate worries that I was just making up fairy tales in my own mind. Whether ID is ultimately true, I do not think a formal resolution of the question is possible, we can only examine the evidence and form our best guess or belief.
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Re: The Quantum Enigma of Consciousness and the Identity of

Postby stcordova » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:49 pm

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Re: The Quantum Enigma of Consciousness and the Identity of

Postby stcordova » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:39 am

The Strong Anthropic Principle and the Final Anthropic Principle


The Strong and Final Anthropic Principles are probably the most controversial of the many versions of the Anthropic Principle. They have a ring of creationism, a philosophy that has been frowned on by science since Darwin’s day. Despite their borderline scientific status, they have been embraced by the religious among the scientific community, heralded as proof of God’s existence and of science’s final acknowledgment of the fact.

The SAP is based on the same “cosmic coincidences” as the far more mundane WAP. It cites the same inexplicable and unlikely chance occurrences that make it possible for life to exist in the Universe. Unlike the WAP, however, they attempt to explain why such improbable events occurred, rather than just state what improbable events must have occurred in the Universe to let us be here. They take a position not unlike Aristotle in his use of Final Causes to explain the why of things: the Universe’s end result was to produce us, so the various physical constants and other properties which are pivotal to our existence have to be such that they bring about our existence.

I don’t have to point out how egotistical that sounds. Looking only at that last sentence, the notion sounds ridiculous. However, those who subscribe to this theory have defended it valiantly. For one thing, the coincidences in the physical constants have yet to be truly explained, except by the SAP and theories like it. As I have said before, many of the conditions and properties in the Universe have precise values, and if these values were changed even very slightly, intelligent life would be completely impossible. And all of these far-fetched coincidences happened together. The Universe certainly seems to have been “made” with life in mind.




If you were to accept this argument, then the FAP would be the logical conclusion after the SAP, especially if you believe the Participatory Anthropic Principle as well. If the Universe is indeed made for the benefit of intelligence, and the Universe in fact needs intelligent observers to exist, then it would be in the Universe’s “interest” to keep intelligence going. Therefore, according to those who subscribe to this theory, intelligent life will never die out.

Of course if the Universe was made toward some end, something with enough consciousness and foresight to create so precise a Universe has to have existed, though the idea of a pre-existing creator-god that we cannot observe (and therefore we cannot prove exists) does seem somewhat unscientific. The alternatives, though, have a similar problem. The proposed “many worlds” theory and its variations, which are the long-standing arguments against the SAP and FAP are just as impossible to test as the existence of God, as the worlds they hold up as a rebuttal to the SAP are just as impossible to detect (more on this later). This is a good point, as we really do only have one Universe, our Universe, to consider, no matter how many theoretical ones we construct.





“As we look out into the Universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked together to our benefit, it almost seems as if the Universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.”
-F. Dyson
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Re: The Quantum Enigma of Consciousness and the Identity of

Postby stcordova » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:49 am

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